This is really a fight for whether Georgia remains a democracy, but also whether Georgia remains a sovereign state, whether Georgians will decide about Georgia’s future, or whether Georgia’s future will be decided by the Russians, – says Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Anne Applebaum in an interview with RFE/RL’s Georgian service.
Her latest book, Autocracy, Inc., explores how autocrats collaborate to undermine the democratic world. Applebaum spoke with Vazha Tavberidze at the Munich Security Conference last week, sharing her assessment of Georgia’s elections and the events that followed.
If we could start with your take on what’s unfolding now in Georgia. What do you think, what are we dealing with?
In Georgia, we have just seen the result of a manipulated election. It was the same process that we saw in Moldova. They’ve tried it in other places. This is many different forms of manipulation, lying, misuse of data, and identity. I’m so impressed that Georgians are willing to continue the fight for free elections and free speech, and I fear the consequences of losing would be felt by Georgians for many generations. I mean, this is really a fight for whether Georgia remains a democracy, but also whether Georgia remains a sovereign state, whether Georgians will decide about Georgia’s future, or whether Georgia’s future will be decided by the Russians.
And in that uneven struggle, has Europe, or the proverbial West, been doing enough? What more can it do if it has not been doing enough?
It’s an unfortunate moment when Europe is distracted by quarrels with the United States, by the war in Ukraine, and many other issues. I do know that many European leaders believe in the struggle for sovereignty and democracy in Georgia, and are doing their best to support it.
Among the people protesting now in the streets of Tbilisi, there is also a feeling that much will be decided for Georgia in the Ukraine war. Just how much is at stake there?
I think the Ukraine war will decide not just the fate of Georgia, but of much of Europe. If it ends in a Ukrainian victory, then you will see the influence of, again, not just democracy, but the idea of the rule of law, the idea of rights, the idea of transparency and accountability of governments. You will see it spread and take hold elsewhere in Europe. If Ukraine loses or is forced into some kind of compromise, or there’s an ugly period of disarray, then you will see the opposite. The Russians will take advantage of anything that looks like chaos in order to promote their form of autocratic dictatorship.
Which of the two outcomes seems more likely at this point?
I don’t know. I really have a lot of faith in the Ukrainians and in their ability to act together as a nation, both to defend themselves and to defend their democracy, and I do hope they’ll win.
Interview by Vazha Tavberidze
