Radio Free Europe’s Georgian Service grabbed a moment with the very busy Alain Berset, Council of Europe Secretary General, during the PACE winter session in Strasbourg. We asked for his take on the developments in Georgia.
Your visit to Georgia sparked so much debate. You defended this decision, said it was the right thing to do, but many also criticized it as conferring legitimacy to a disputed government. Two months on, has your take on that decision changed?
Georgia has been a member state of the Council of Europe for many years now. We have 46 member states. And I think the meaning of multilateralism is to bring contact, to speak to each other. And that’s why I was very clear when visiting Georgia, [I said] I want to see everybody, all political actors, as well as civil society. And I started the visit by meeting with representatives of civil society and also with people who were brutally injured during the demonstrations. It was no legitimation of the elections, because I am not responsible for that, it’s not up to me to legitimize, or to not legitimize, an election: I’m just responsible for seeing what’s happening with the people on the ground. Almost 4 million people live in Georgia, and they need to understand and to know that they are protected by the European Convention on Human Rights, and they need to know and to see that we are present to support their European aspirations. That’s the main message that I wanted to bring to Georgia in December. And it’s the same message today.
You were given several promises by the Georgian government: a release of the political prisoners, an investigation into violations, and an amendment to the foreign agent law. None of those things have happened. Have you checked on the progress?
No, but we are monitoring it really closely. On the first element, we had, I would say, a positive evolution just after the visit, with some releases. But then in January we also had some negative developments. And that’s why it’s so important to stay in touch. Cutting contact altogether and saying, “Okay, we don’t want to engage with Georgia” would not help. We need everyone to understand that a country that is a member of the Council of Europe has certain obligations, first of all human rights.
On the second point, investigating all the allegations of abuse and use of force against protesters, here we are monitoring too, and we can say we aren’t seeing enough results. We had a visit of the Commission of Human Rights, the visit of two PACE co-rapporteurs, and a visit of the Committee for the Prevention of Torture.
But none of them had anything particularly positive to say about things.
That’s why it is so important to be in contact. If we cut this contact, nobody has anything to say. We have something to say where we see the problems and we want to have a discussion with the authorities. And the last point about the working group for amending the Foreign Agents law: we agreed on creating this working group.
Is it working?
It is starting to work. And, you know, the good thing- I was present, and I addressed all the issues with all the people ready to speak with me. Being present allowed me to have high expectations and to expect that they will deliver. And if they don’t, then we will have a new discussion. But not to come at all and to abandon Georgia in this situation would not help, I think. We need to make sure we try and make progress together.
We care about the Georgian people. That’s why we are so invested and so emotionally engaged in seeing progress. And that’s why I was present. If not everyone understands this, that’s not my problem.”
One last question – You said you met all the stakeholders. You happen to be the last European leader who met with Ivanishvili. On whose initiative was that, and why did it happen?
You know, I think it is impossible to pretend that he is not playing a role in Georgian politics. When I say, as the Secretary General of the Council of Europe, that I’m ready to go to Georgia and seek contact with all relevant actors, I mean that I am ready to meet with all the relevant parties. They are also ready to meet with me. We requested a meeting, as we did with all other meetings, and then the meeting took place. But you know, it is impossible to pretend that he doesn’t play a role, and if we want to make progress—whether it’s on human rights, democracy, the rule of law, or the aspirations of the Georgian people—we care about the Georgian population. That’s why we are so interested and emotionally invested in seeing progress. And that’s why I was present. If not everyone understood this aspect, that’s not my problem.
Interview by Vazha Tavberidze
